AASHTO re:source Q&A Podcast Transcript

Season 3, Episode 25: FAQ with Our Admin Team

Recorded: October 14, 2022

Released: October 25, 2022

Host: Brian Johnson, AASHTO Accreditation Program Manager, AASHTO re:source

Guest(s): Sara Holsinger, Office Manager; Mark Ambrosini, Administrative Assistant; Stephen Amaya, Administrative Assistant, AASHTO re:source

Transcribed by Kim Swanson and MS Teams.

 [Theme music fades in.]

 [00:00:02] Announcer: Welcome to AASHTO resource Q & A. We're taking time to discuss construction materials, testing, and inspection with people in the know from exploring testing problems and solutions to laboratory best practices and quality management, we're covering topics important to you. Now here our host, Brian Johnson.

[00:00:20] Brian: Welcome to AASHTO re:source Q&A. I'm Brian Johnson, sometimes on this podcast we like to answer frequently asked questions that I get as the manager of the AASHTO Accreditation Program. But today, we are going to widen the scope of questions quite a bit with some guests that get just about every kind of question you could imagine that would come to AASHTO re:source. If you've ever called our office to ask a question you've probably spoken to one of these guests. So, they are Sara Holsinger, Administrative Coordinator. Sara, welcome to the podcast.

[00:00:55] Sara: Thank you.

[00:00:56] Brian: Mark Ambrosini, Administrative Assistant and welcome Mark.

[00:01:00] Mark: Thanks, hi.

[00:01:02] Brian: And Stephen Amaya, Administrative Assistant as well.

[00:01:06] Stephen: Hey there everyone.

[00:01:08] Brian: Yeah, so now that you know the voices of the guest today. I am going to start well, just one other thing I wanted to mention is Sara. How long have you been with AASHTO re:source?

[00:01:19] Sara: I have been with the company for 9 years now.

[00:01:21] Brian: Nine years, OK Mark?

[00:01:23] Mark: I've been with the company since June 2021.

[00:01:26] Brian: Yeah, so relatively new and we'll go to newest Stephen. How long have you been with AASHTO resource officially?

[00:01:33] Stephen: Officially, a week. Unofficially six months. [Brian and Stephen: Laughing]

[00:01:32] Brian: That's right you, you've been around enough to get some questions so that's why I'm very interested to get the different perspectives with your varying degrees of experience answering these questions. So, Sara since you've been here, the longest. I'm going to start with you. What is the most frequent question that you get?

[00:01:56] Sara: You would see the frequent questions that we get have to do with enrolling in the PSP program and invoicing those are like the top ones that we get all the time.

[00:02:06] Brian: OK, so for proficiency samples what? What are some typical questions that you get?

[00:02:11] Sara: It can be anything from? How do I enroll in this sample we get a lot of questions about where they can find documentation? And when the sample is going to ship and when it's due.  Also, a lot of questions about can you extend the due date for me?

[00:02:26] Brian: [Laughing] I'm sure that is a common one. Now, I did ask you all to put together some questions before the interview just to see what kind of things come up and one of you said that you get this question. And I'm curious who it was and what you tell people, and the question is what's in the box?

[00:02:48] Sara: That is the question that we get all the time.  We have a lot of customers who want to know exactly what it is that they're getting in their samples, and we actually have good news about that because John Malusky has now started uploading videos of the samples. He's unboxing the samples to let you know exactly what you can expect to see in that sample package. But you can also find that information on the instructions as well that we provide for the samples that are uploaded to our website.

[00:03:20] Brian: Yeah, I love that idea. So, John Malusky is the Manager of the Proficiency Sample Program. I think that's a really good idea.  I know that my kids, love watching people open boxes, too on YouTube. And I don't. I don't know if they will tune into those particular ones because those are not as exciting as opening toys, but I think our customers would probably appreciate that. Does anyone I assume that they only asked that before they receive the package correct?

[00:03:45] Sara: Right.

[00:03:46] Brian: They don't say I'm afraid to open this what's in it. I need to know you need to tell me what's in it. Before I crack this thing open?

[00:03:51] Sara: No, no. It's typically they just want to know what they're getting beforehand.

[00:03:56] Brian: OK very good. Mark, are people generally nice to you on the phone when they call?

[00:04:01] Mark: Thankfully for the most part, yes. We don't usually get super difficult calls in general, actually. They’re usually inquiring about like the proficiency sample or if it's a question that's a little bit beyond our knowledge it's usually being transferred to another like a quality analyst or something. So, usually we don't have many difficult calls, I guess you could say.  

[00:04:25] Brian: I'm glad to hear that I know you sometimes get some let's extremely general ones, though, because you have forwarded those to me actually recently. I got one of those. I think it was yesterday where it was basically like where do I start?  I need I need to get accredited and it's a loaded question it is. It is a short question, but it takes about 20 minutes to answer it.  I think it's appropriate to forward those because that it really goes because it gets into all the stuff with CCRL and all these other things that I think would be hard for somebody to answer that hasn't been here for a really long time.  Mark, what questions do you find other than that general one what? What do you find to be the most difficult questions that you get?

[00:00:00] Mark: When they start to get super technical regarding the different samples. I do get kind of apprehensive with answering because. I want to make sure that I am answering correctly, and I have done on my part. I've done research on the page where we list the sample types and the tests that they cover. I've thoroughly read over that page, making sure I can answer questions. But if they start to get even further technical then I'm like UH...one moment.

[00:05:33] Brian: Yeah, I think that's probably for the best. Stephen.  You've been here, the shortest amount of time and I know that there is a... an enormous amount of information that one needs to know to be able to answer even some basic questions that are seemingly basic questions that we get I mean, if you just look at something like the proficiency sample policy or rules for enrollments.  I sometimes need to look at that to provide an answer. If it's a test that I'm not that clear on or maybe, it's new to the program. How do you do this like? How do you get yourself ready to be able to do your job when there's so much to know and how do you handle these questions when you get them?

[00:06:20] Stephen: Yeah, so typically with like PSP-related questions. Luckily, we have, like, this handy-dandy little chart that kind of overseas the different dates throughout the for the different samples. So, we keep track of it that way. So, I'm always looking at. You know what sample round is going on right now, which ones coming on in the future because we have to handle the questions a little bit differently, based off the time period that they're asked is it is this question related to the current sample that's going on now or is it a sample that's going to occur in the future because then it kind of plays on how we kind of go about providing the information that the customers are looking for.  It took me a little bit to wrap my head around the different samples because you know when I started. It was like 15 and now I think it's gone up to like 18. We've had certain splits. You know, we had Hveem recently split into three different types.  We still have customers asking about coarse aggregate and fine aggregate, but that's since been split up into aggregate degradation aggregate gradation and gravity so. That's been a lot of the bulk of my learning is trying to learn. These differences and how to guide the customers into enrolling to the correct sample during the right time.  Yeah, because there's all these running deadlines throughout the throughout these different samples. So, it kind of those deadlines usually are what I think cause some difficulties for the customers. You know, especially if they're not planned for or sometimes. It just happens at the most inconvenient time so that's I think sometimes why we have some disgruntled customers. But for the most part we always try our best to cooperate and figure out what their problems are and get them in contact with the right people if we can't solve their problems or provide the right information or anything like that.  Yeah, so it's been a lot of learning.

[00:07:59] Brian: I'm sure and I have to say you guys do a tremendous job dealing with the kind of questions that you get because I don't I. Get information about customer feedback. You know, we have management reviews. We have internal audits, and I don't really hear a lot of negative comments about people when they're dealing with the admin team. Sara what's going right? Why are we doing such a good job?

[00:08:24] Sara: Well, I think that we have two amazing individuals that have you know recently joined the team and I just can't say enough good stuff about them, they really do take the initiative to learn and to help.  And it has definitely made my job a lot easier as well.

[00:08:43] Brian: I think that that says a lot. It is the taking of initiative that that makes it work. You know, and it's not just hanging back and forwarding calls to people all day. I mean, it's the effort that that Mark and Stephen undertake to learn about the program requirements and learn about some of the technical stuff and sure it's going to. It's going to take a long time to learn it so it years. In some cases, Sara how are you feeling I mean you've been here for a while you feel pretty technically competent like I mean, not to answer like questions about hey, I'm getting this weird result? What's going on, but at least enough to be able to get the kind of questions that you typically receive?

[00:09:25] Sara: Yeah, I feel pretty confident with most of the questions that I get some of them do. Take me a little bit more research.  it's I think one of the biggest things I've learned is how to research the answers to some of these questions because the information is out there and it's on our website. Most of the time so sometimes it just takes a little digging on my part to figure it out.  But I feel like I've gotten really good at it over the past nine years and of course, there's still those questions that I have no idea about. That I do have to forward but overall, I am definitely confident more confident than I was and I still learn things every day after nine years.

[00:10:04] Brian: Now I'm going to ask you, Sara because I know you've dealt with challenging customers and calls over the years.  What topics generally elicit the most frustration from our customers?

[00:10:17] Sara: I would say the report processing getting the reports online.  Then responding to their nonconformities and waiting to hear back. Sometimes I don't think people understand just how much time that actually takes, and I do think they get a little frustrated at times with that. 

[00:10:35] Brian: Let's dig into that for a minute.  What Sara's talking about right now is the CCRL reports. So just so that our listeners understand what happened. So, we've got two different assessment providers that feed into the AASHTO Accreditation Program. AASHTO resource and CCRL. AASHTO resource when a report is issued from our company AASHTO resource, we have systems in place where it kind of flows through this workflow and then the nonconformities and the deadline pop up in our accreditation events system and there, certainly are some administrative responsibilities to make this happen. But it there's a lot of automation involved. Now when it comes to CCRL reports, it is not that way. So, Sara can you explain? What happens with the CCRL reports?

[00:11:25] Sara: Yes, so typically what ends up happening is we'll get an e-mail from CCRL with the report information and that happens on the same day that the customer also receives that finalized report. When we receive them, we kind of comb through those reports and we do our best to combine some of those findings together to eliminate some repeat processes that may happen on the customers end.  So, they don't have to upload the same documentation 6 different times for a specific finding when they can kind of all be combined together and done it one time. I think it's a big help, but it does take time for us to get through those and then you know, we have to upload those reports. But those are done by hand in a copying and pasting type procedure because our system doesn't speak to the CCRL system so they can get super time consuming.

[00:12:19] Brian:  Just to summarize that. So what Sara was saying, is that you've got the two things. You've got this combination process so you take the report from CCRL it has some redundant nonconformities, or at least a similar finding throughout they can be combined so that's phase one. Right? [Sara: Right.] And then phase two is where you enter them one by one into the accreditation events system, which is also a time consuming. Now, how long did it take you Sara to get comfortable with that? because I think the combination part doing the editing to narrow those nonconformities down to just what the laboratory can address in a single corrective action report. I Imagine that that probably had a steep learning curve? How was that for you?

[00:13:16] Sara: It definitely took me some time. These CCRL reports and how we've processed them have evolved so much since I've started here and they've changed.  So I think in a sense, I've kind of had an edge on learning how to do this because I've been doing it for so long, whereas I think for Stephen and Mark it may take a little longer for them to kind of be able to figure out the exact way to combine those but I mean. It definitely took me, I would say the better part of a year to get really comfortable with it and.  You know for the most part I don't know what I'm reading so that you know makes it difficult. Sometimes, some of these things make no sense to me and I'm trying to figure out just how they can go together.

[00:14:01] Brian: Stephen it sounds like you have an uphill climb on that one with your with your experience level how? How has it been though like when you when you do this. Stephen not knowing some of the terminology, especially the apparatus. I think a lot of the redundancy comes with these apparatus related nonconformities. How has that been for you?

[00:14:23] Stephen: It's been confusing you know, but I've been making sense of it by you know. Luckily, I can work with some of our Quality Analysts I have, like very specific questions on where to place certain findings or if. Certain things don't make sense to me, you know, Sara's been a great help as well. But luckily my part so far has just been entering them into the system. I'm now learning how to edit those reports and let me tell you how it is a It is a doozy. There's a lot of if then situations. But if this happens, then you have to be careful of this and look for that. So, it is a lot, so it is time consuming and so I hope with customers, you know it can take two weeks or longer because you know it takes CCRL their time to process the reports to send it to over to us. Then it takes us our time to edit it and then enter those findings, and then from there. Once those findings are entered the customer then receives the notice from us and then they have 60 days to respond to them on conformities. The sooner the better honestly that I would recommend responding to those nonconformities because it gives the Quality Analysts in charge of that file more efficient time to get back to them, so that way they don't feel so like.  Pressed  because deadlines seem to be the like. One of the number one stressors for labs. You know whether it's their production deadlines that they have for their own stuff or our deadlines to submit information or proficiency sample deadlines or whatever that's one of the just the stressors that they experience so, if they work with us, we can kind of make it work out. They just communicate those things that they're going through with us and it's been pretty good, so far.

[00:15:50] Brian: Yeah, I can see why customers like talking to you about this you're putting me at ease already and I'm not even a lab trying to address these so I'm sure people. Appreciate it Mark Yeah, so you're in between. You're in between on your experience level do you have any tips for Stephen or like? What have you found to be a good way to figure out how to handle this appropriately.

[00:16:11] Mark: So, I'm also in the process of learning how to properly edit them. One thing that I have noticed, since I've been entering them longer than Stephen has, I've noticed some similar terminology. So, when I went to Start learning how to edit them. I already kind of had an understanding like OK. That sounds vaguely familiar, or I would notice like? How Sara would combine certain findings together and sometimes I combine things that look similar to me, but Sara.  We'll follow up like ohh. We'll those two actually don't go together, but this one goes with this one so. I would say that maybe I have a slight upper hand cause I've been entering a little bit longer, but it's also still. Equally, as in it's definitely a climb.

[00:16:56] Brian: Yeah, it, it, it is, and it's it. It takes repetition like anything no matter what it is. If you're trying to learn something new. You just have to do it over and over and over until you get proficient right. So, thanks for that insight. Sara I'm going to go back to you here. I in the questions that I had asked you to think about you sent me one that I I thought was kind of an interesting one and is that why is my laboratory suspended so do you get that question a lot? [Sara: Oh my gosh, yes.] I'm seeing nodding heads you guys get that a lot.

[00:17:37] Sara: Yes, all the time.  I'm not sure why because I know that. You know, these things are sent through the accreditation events.  And I'm guessing maybe it's sometimes that someone will get the e-mail. But the person who's actually calling about it hasn't seen that e-mail and doesn't know to go into the accreditation events to look for that information.  So that is typically where we point them to go into the accreditation event. Sometimes we have to walk them through step by step.  But we'll get them into the accreditation events and pull up that ATG number for them. You know, and we'll go over the document. We'll kind of read them. What's on there if they don't have access to it, and let them know that they really should be talking to their QA about it, but this is the information that we do have and we do know.

[00:18:20] Stephen: Yeah, sometimes we also get like labs, calling so they're surprised by it. And it's typically what I found is that it's because they haven't updated their contact information. So, let's say you know the person in charge before left they never updated the information so they're still receiving those emails so we're getting bounced back emails, but we tried. Reaching out but the there's no updated contact information. So, then they call us that we finally figure that out, and then we'll reset their logins and contact information for them and all that, but that's one of the other things that we find with our customers.

[00:18:53] Brian: I did want to go back and clarify a couple of things, though, that I that I was just thinking about #1 when we were talking about how long it takes to add the information from the CCRL report to the accreditation events. We actually do account for that time in the overall deadline.  Stephen mentioned the 60-day deadline to address all those nonconformities for the that day starts when the report. Nonconformities are added to the accreditation events system so they may have gotten a report issued from CCRL weeks prior.  Our deadline starts when it gets entered into the accreditation events, so even though it does take some time on our admin team’ s side to get that in there do not worry and do not let that stress you out because you will get your 60 days that you expected the other thing that I wanted to mention is related to the contact information. The reason why I was kind of surprised that this was such a common question is that I know that when a laboratory gets suspended, they get a notification. They get an e-mail to their primary and secondary contacts with the accreditation decisions that says your accreditation has been suspended because of this that and the other thing and this is what you have to do, and this is when you have to do it by and if you don't do it. Then this will happen. So, all of that information is in this template that we use to.  To let people know about it, but that completely makes sense that they hadn't updated their contact information and especially if they got suspended for not completing the annual review because one of the things we asked them to do in the annual review is to review their contact information and make sure that everything is up to date, so if they didn't do it. It then follows that they probably aren't going to get the notification. I don't know this solution to that because it's just something you have to do if you have a change in personnel. You have to remember oh, yeah, we're AASHTO Accredited. We need to make sure that. We're still getting the information uh. And the invoices by the way let let's jump over to the invoice issue because that's the second most difficult discussion that we have with customers Mark.  People just love talking about unpaid invoices don't they?

[00:21:06] Mark: They do and it's funny because?  There will be no word from the lab at all until they get the past due notice and then they're all of a sudden, saying, I've never seen this invoice ever.  And it's like well, we did send a notice and we also did e-mail. It most times. We've emailed it. So, it is kind of humorous when they reach out like? What is what is going on with this past due invoice?

[00:21:29] Brian: Yeah, that can be questionable when we get those when we get those kinds of calls, right? Because the other thing is it's usually expected, right? Because we invoice, the same times every year.  For proficiency samples and the accreditation fees. Plus, to get the assessment fees. They would have just been assessed so they should anticipate getting an invoice, but I will say one thing that is a little confusing and I think does cause some confusion among the laboratories is the way we invoice right so Sara? How has the invoicing process changed over the year and what are we doing now?

[00:22:11] Sara: Well like you said. We do invoice pretty much twice a year we invoice in the spring for the accreditation program. And one of the biggest questions that we get with that invoicing is why are the dates for last year? And the dates are for last year because we built in the arrears for your accreditation? We don't want to charge your laboratory for something that technically hasn't happened.  You could have dropped a scope from your accreditation, and we certainly don't want to invoice, you for an entire year for that.  Or it could be that you didn't get accredited for that scope that you were seeking, and we don't want to invoice, you for that as well.  So, we do bill for the previous year's accreditation when it comes to the accreditation invoices. For the proficiency samples we send those invoices out in September and that is always for the next year's proficiency samples, and we do this because it helps us get an accurate - more accurate count, I should say, of how many samples we need to produce, it helps us with budgeting.  So, that's why we like to get that information in the system ahead of time. And of course, you can enroll anytime throughout the year, but once you're in that's when you're going to get your invoices, typically in September.

[00:23:28] Brian: I’ll add to that, that it's always been that way as far as I know. And that's another reason that it is that way because if you change if you all of a sudden flip it to a different you know instead. We're going to build ahead of time. You've got all of a sudden, a double billing period, which I think is extremely problematic for customers. So, I'm not eager to change that and really it works out because if you drop out, then you get a final invoice. At no time are we billing you for services you have not received.  Now the other question I want to ask related to that Sara is that the process for getting your actual bill so for proficiency samples and for accreditation fees, they get a physical bill in the mail correct.

[00:24:18] Sara: Yes, we do mail those each year.

[00:24:20] Brian: OK, now, what about assessment fees did they get a physical bill for that.

[00:24:25] Sara: No assessment fees, we typically go ahead and e-mail. We have more control over those because we're not. It's not a couple 1000 invoices at one time it's typically 20 invoices that we're sending out so we'll go ahead and e-mail. Those individually to usually the primary secondary and the billing contact if they're different on the account.

[00:24:45] Brian: Yeah, now do they does that e-mail include a PDF of the invoice?

[00:24:50] Sara: That e-mail does because we're creating them by hand.

[00:24:54] Brian: One other question that came in here is related to multiple accounts and logins. Mark, how much confusion is there about who has the login and why don't more people have the login for this account and I'm trying to log in and I don't see anything do you get a lot of those questions?

[00:25:13] Mark: We do get those pretty often.  A lot of times we'll get a question, saying like.  I'm trying to log in and submit my data for this sample and my supervisor is out of town for two weeks and I can't log in.  And I'll usually follow that up with well did your supervisor leave the login information for you and they'll say well. No, I'm trying to log in and make my own, which we'll have to explain with each account. There's only one login.  Now we can link multiple like lab accounts together under one login, but there's still one login at this time at least so that's usually what we're explaining like.  If your supervisor can send you the login information great and make like a communal password but.  Yeah, if we do get that question pretty often, I would say.

[00:26:08] Brian: That's another one of those that I think is challenging for people because when they have a change in personnel and that's it. Happens relatively frequently where someone leaves and the login is tied to their e-mail address, which is probably no longer maintained at that company so, but they still keep it because they don't know how to change it. How does someone change that login?

[00:26:33] Stephen: So, there is a handy dandy feature on our website. You can request a reset your password. You can also just contact us directly either via phone or by emailing us at info@aashtoresource.org and just letting us know that you're looking to reset the login and oftentimes we will.  Send you the passcode and that you need to reregister again with our site.

[00:27:01] Brian: Yeah, and I and I will say you are all very fast. Anytime I've had an issue with a lab where they contacted me, and they're confused I'll forward it to you, and you get an addressed within the hour. They've got their new account login setup and they can get registered usually it's way faster than that. But I'm just building that in in case there's a little slow down and people don't get upset so. Thank you for that. The last question. This is I mean, ask all of you this so.  We're going to go around the around the room here.  Any final statement or thoughts that you want to put out there for our customers that might be helpful.

[00:27:42] Sara: So, the thing that I think I would most like customers to know is.  That I'll go with the invoicing for me because I deal a lot with the invoicing, so for me. It's communicate with us. Let us know if you didn't get an invoice, so that we can help you update your information, but also let us know if there's a hold up with that payment if you let us know. We can make a note on your invoice, and this helps us in the future.  When we're processing past dues and stuff to know exactly what's going on and we can work with you on those situations.

[00:28:20] Brian: Great I appreciate that. Mark.

[00:28:23] Mark: One thing that's a massive help when contacting us is when you include your account number.  I'm sure Sara and Stephen can also agree with this that there's been times where a lab with a Gmail so it's not even like we can use their e-mail handle to look up their account and they asked like can I order this sample and we're like? Yes, you can if we can look you up somehow and there's many times where you're trying to like search like first name last name company name and then it. It's definitely a lot easier. If we have an account number or an enrollment number to help us look up your account much quicker.

[00:29:05] Brian: I think just about everyone in our organization that that handles customer calls and emails with echo that sentiment because when you get a call. Hey this is Dave from the lab. You're like OK, we've got over 2000 customers if I just search for Dave or David. There's probably 50 of them in our contacts or whatever. The name is there's I think at one point just out of curiosity. I ended up searching our customer list just for names that I thought were common to figure out how many there were of each because we do get so many of those questions where they just say their first name and they assume that you know who they are, and which lab they're with and which location of the company.  It is sometimes it's even that they could say the name of the company. It's like well. We have 80 of your offices in the program so you've got to be a little bit more specific. So yeah, that's a great one. Now, Stephen, I have really given you time to think about this so I'm sure you have a great one.

[00:30:06] Stephen: You not only communicate with us but communicate with each other like lab personnel because oftentimes you know again going back to this whole updating contact information billing information. All that some labs. They don't do it, so that we will be invoicing the customer that's labeled in the billing section and it's not the person that it should be sent to so oftentimes it's more of a problem with like larger labs that have multiple locations and stuff like that, so we'll send the invoice to the lab the designated lab individual and then they should be forwarding. It technically to their accounts payable but they don't and so because we don't have multiple logins available. You know, everyone's always asking where is this invoice or where's this and it would also help if they would just communicate that information to each other also communicate that the login information. If you have multiple people, they need to log in to submit data and stuff like that. It's very important because we're always help as best as we can, but having that information is always vital.

[00:31:04] Brian: Well, that that's a good one and all good compliments to each other's uh last word to the laboratories, one question. I forgot to ask, Sara I'm sure you've gotten some weird questions over the years. What is the strangest or one of the strangest questions that you've ever gotten from a laboratory?

[00:31:24] Sara: OK, so I'm going to be a little funny for a moment but the strangest question that I get often asked is how is my husband doing and that is because a lot of people think that I am related to our former PSP Manager Ron Holsinger and it is one of my favorite questions to get it. Always makes me smile, but we're not related. We were never married.  Good guy.

[00:31:49] Brian: That is really funny to me because it isn't unusual last name to. I mean, I've only ever met. Two people in my life with the last name Holsinger. Both worked with me and and like you, said, are totally unrelated and I don't. I mean, it's just bizarre that it kind of happened that way. But that's funny. I had no idea that people thought that you were Ron’s wife. All this time, I had no idea you're getting those questions that's too funny. But OK Alright That's a good one anybody else have one.

[00:32:24] Mark: I actually just thought about one as we were sitting here discussing it a couple of weeks ago and I'm sure Sara and Stephen will remember this we a lab. We were trying to find some correspondence between us and the lab and they were wondering if like we could search their e-mail for them.  And I was like unfortunately, we can't search your e-mail. We don't have those capabilities unfortunately.

[00:32:50] Brian: That that is that is wild.  Boy talk about IT security problems if that was possible and I'm and I'm grateful that we can't search people's emails that would not want to see what's in there in some cases. but anyway. Thank you guys so much for your time. Today I know you're so busy all the time handling everything that you do and doing such a great job for a customers to thank you for what you do and thanks for your time today.

[00:33:22] Sara: Thank you for having us.

[00:33:34] Mark: Thank you Brian.

[00:33:35] Stephen: Yeah, thanks.

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