FAQ - False Claims of Accreditation and Using the Accreditation Logo

AASHTO re:source Q&A Podcast Transcript

Season 4, Episode 08: FAQ - False Claims of Accreditation and Using the Accreditation Logo

Recorded: February 9, 2023

Released: July 18, 2023 

Hosts: Brian Jonson, AASHTO Accreditation Program Director; Kim Swanson, Communications Manager, AASHTO re:source 

Note: Please reference AASHTO re:source and AASHTO Accreditation Program policies and procedures online for official guidance on this, and other topics. 

Transcription is auto-generated. 

[Theme music fades in.] 

00:00:02 ANNOUNCER: Welcome to AASHTO resource Q & A. We're taking time to discuss construction materials, testing, and inspection with people in the know from exploring testing problems and solutions to laboratory best practices and quality management, we're covering topics important to you. Now here's our host, Brian Johnson.

00:00:21 BRIAN: Welcome to AASHTO resource Q & A. I'm Brian Johnson.

00:00:24 KIM: And I'm Kim Swanson. Brian, we have another FAQ episode. We haven't done one in a while. I feel like.

00:00:30 BRIAN: Yeah, I don't think we've done one of just me and you.

00:00:32 KIM: Hopefully this is educational for people and that they enjoy this episode. So what are we Going to talk about today.?

00:00:38 BRIAN: We've had a couple of questions recently regarding the use of our logo as well as issues regarding publicizing companies’ accreditation. So, like, we've gotten enough of these questions recently where I think it's time for us to address it on an episode of the Podcast.

00:00:57 KIM: Yes. And we have had separate podcast episodes. I think in Season 2 of season one, and I'll put links in the show notes to those episodes about publicizing your accreditation. And I believe also about false claims of and we do have policies on our website about these things specifically that I also will link to in the show notes. But I agree we've been getting a lot of questions. So I think it's time to dive back in and share some more thoughts on that. So, let's deal with the false claims first.

00:01:30 KIM: What does the AASHTO Accreditation Program consider a false claim of accreditation?

00:01:35 BRIAN: False claim is any untrue or exaggerated statement that is made about one's accreditation. That is whether that be intentional or not. It is still objectively a false claim. If we find that that happens.

00:01:52 KIM: And then how do we generally discover some of these false claims of accreditation?

00:01:56 BRIAN: That's a tough one because we don't have a regular process for that. You know, like most of the things we have a regular process for. Like, you know, we perform assessments every so many months. We perform annual reviews once a year, but certain things like false claims and 3rd party complaint. It's they happen when they happen. So like, I'll give you an example. We've had times where we've gotten contacted by people saying that there is somebody claiming to be accredited that is not. Then what happens is we look into it and figure out if we can objectively determine that that is true if so. We go through the false claims process. Another thing that can happen, and this just happened the other day is I got a. Yeah, unusually urgent requests for accreditation. That indicated to me that this person may already be claiming to be accredited when they are not. That is a red flag for me, so of course I start looking into it.

00:02:53 BRIAN: OK, well, they seem like they think they're already accredited, or they may have told somebody that they're already accredited. Let's see if they are. Overtly claiming to be accredited. So of course I look into their website and I find information on it that indicates that they are claiming somehow or obfuscating that they may be. The having some relationship to accreditation or certification or some relationship that doesn't exist with our program or it could be a location of their laboratories that they might be implying our accredited through our program. Or a standard that they might be implying or stating directly that their credit for that they are not accredited for. So there's all kinds of ways that things can be falsified, and none of them are good, obviously, and we need to figure them out.

00:03:50 BRIAN: So, all right, so I didn't really answer your question. So, I'm going to.  Go back, go back to that.  they can be a third-party complaint, or we can stumble upon them.  So like the one I mentioned where my Spidey senses were going off, that there might be an issue and I looked into it.  So, there's another way. We don't have like as part of our annual review process that we review the company's website to make sure that they're not making any false claims.  Like that is not currently part of our process.  So, it is it is kind of a spot check kind of thing, but that is our process currently. So it is a process and people do have due process.  So, like if we look into it and there's no problem, obviously there's no problem.  They won't hear from us, they don't. They don't even need to know that we got a complaint. But if we look into it and. Find an issue.  Then we have to follow up on it.

00:04:38 KIM: There is a couple of points that I want to break out from our listeners here. There's the implied right there, so it can be totally unintentional that the organization and laboratory is implying that they have more accreditation than they don't.  It could also be a terminology issue that, and I think we see this a lot and I know I see this a lot and I think we've had an episode about this and the difference between accreditation and certification.  And I think some people don't quite understand that.  So listen, their website and promotional materials that they are ash toe certified or that they are ash to resource certified or CRL certified and that's not those aren't correct statements, right.  So that would also kind of be a false statement of accreditation because they're not. Certified AASHTO Accreditation program does not certify individuals, so that is a false claim.  So, I think there's a couple of things about that as well.

00:05:31 KIM: Like, it could be just I think most of the time we see these are I see this happen is when it's completely unintentional, perhaps somebody in the marketing department just did their website wrong or perhaps it was, you know that they are seeking accreditation. And so they just went ahead and say, yeah, we're accredited.  So they just put the cart before the horse. A little bit, but we. Do have malicious intent sometimes where people are trying to. To pull one over on other people and say that they're credited and when they know that they're not.  But I think for the most part it is kind of the unintentional or the ambiguous implied general like yeah, we work with them like that quite.  You can't quite say.

00:06:14 BRIAN: It like that? Yeah, I can tell you almost every time I've dealt with.  This I get it. Whether this is true or not, I get the explanation that the marketing person or the website person didn't understand the terminology or thought they understood what was going on or wasn't aware of the policy.  Regardless, they usually fix it within the seven-day period that we have in our policy.  You know, they need to take care of it.  That week, what I run into occasionally is that people say all the right things, but then. They don't fix it. In that.  I can't know the intent right?  I can't know the intent, but it's not a good look. So if somebody is saying all the right things but in the end they're not willing to make the change, then guess what? That's a false claim, and that's we're going to we're going to put you on the false claims table or false claims list on our website, which I also want to talk about how we need to make that a little bit more prominent.

00:07:12 BRIAN: We don't get a lot of people on there, a lot of companies on there, but it is important when somebody goes to our directory that they see that that is a thing, so that hopefully they go there 1st to see if they're dealing with a false claim.  If they're not sure. There's always that situation where we don't know what's going on unless we find out about it, which sounds obvious, but there could be false claims going on.  Somebody could be submitting a bid for a contract and they're claiming to be accredited.  We have no idea about any of that stuff.  We don't get those documents.  We're not aware.  So unless somebody reaches out to us and says.  Hey, this happened and here's the evidence. And we don't have anything to go on.  I think like a big a big challenge. Is getting people to understand that we also don't know all the agencies and organizations that require accreditation, so there could be a county or a school board or a business that has requirements for accreditation and they may get a bid for a contract that includes a, a homemade certificate, right?

00:08:13 BRIAN: They may not even be a customer of ours.  Doing something like. That, and unless they go to the directory and look to verify the information, there's no way they would know.  So, like, that's the one thing that we really want people to understand is you have to go and verify it, not only to see that that is legitimate, but also to see if there are suspensions and if there are suspensions that should be a problem.  The suspension is a temporary situation, but it needs to be resolved and if you are getting a bunch of bids from companies and some of them are suspended.  And they can't give you a good explanation of why that is or they won't share with you the information about it and what they're doing about it.  That should bother you. I can't tell you what to do. It's up to you.  Ultimately, if you're the one who doing the hiring, making the hiring decision or contract award decision, but that should bother you.

00:09:03 KIM: Yeah, I think we can't overstate how important it is that agencies requiring and specifying accreditation actually verify it, because our certificates, when somebody prints it out will have the date and time that that accreditation was. So, if you get a certificate that is, you know.  10 months old. That's not accurate because it may. Nothing may have changed, but that's not a current view of their accreditation because our directory does get updated at least once a day with the current information. So, if there's any changes or suspensions, that information is.  Made available publicly relatively quickly now Brian, I have 30 minutes in my head, but is that, has that been changed?  How often is the directory updated?

00:09:52 BRIAN: We've had to change it because of different loads on our web resources.  So, at times it had been 60 and then it was thirty. I think we're back to 30 now, so it's not immediate, but it. I mean it just, I mean, within the hour is pretty close to immediate when you're talking about something that is a big process like this.

00:10:13 KIM: That is an excellent point, and so you briefly talked about the false accreditation page that we have on our website that lists any organization. That we are aware of. Of that may be falsely stating or overstating their accreditation and haven't taken the appropriate. Steps so can. You walk our listeners through kind of the process of once we are notified or once we discover a false claim of accreditation, what steps do we take and then what are the steps for the laboratory?

00:10:44 BRIAN: We reach out to them and I let them know that there's some problems and I say OK, you know, please take care of this and depending on how it goes like I sometimes send a very formal notification that has like, OK, you must resolve this within this date. If I see it's just out of date. I usually go a little lighter on my notification and say hey, I noticed this that day, but this is a problem you know, please take care of this and if I get a good response and I don't need to say OK, you have seven days to do this unless they don't do it within the seven days and then and then I say listen, you're supposed to do this within seven days. I need to do it like right away because. A lot of times when you're communicating with people about those kind of misstatements that are innocent, they feel that you're threatening them by. Right. Coming out hot with the like, here's the consequence. If you don't do this and it's like that's we don't really want that. If we don't have. To get we don't have to be threatening. We don't really want to be threatening, especially if it's a misunderstanding.

00:11:42 BRIAN: But ultimately, we just want resolution, we want them to do the right thing, they do the right thing, great. We let them know it's resolved. If they don't do the right thing, they go on the false claims site, and I will say that is not the end of the problems for a laboratory that does that. Let's go with that example I mentioned earlier where somebody's. Desperate to get accredited. They make a false claim on their website. They say all the right things. Ultimately don't do it because maybe that bid's coming up soon and they need it. They just need a little longer so that they can get through this, and they'll do it afterward. Of course, you're not going to say that to me, but that let's say that's the scenario. It's important we take care of it. And list them on there on the directory, but it's also a situation where, like OK, this is the kind of person that would do this. We don't want them in the program at all. Well, so I we are inclined to not give any services to a laboratory that acts that way. So, if they're going to make false claims, they should look elsewhere for accreditation services.

00:12:42 BRIAN: We do not need those kinds of laboratories bringing our program down. So, it's not simply a matter of being listed on the false claims site for a while. There could be other concerns that that laboratory has, like, not even being customer at all of ours if that's something they want to do. So, you know, maybe it wasn't their intent in the 1st place, maybe their intent was just to pretend to be certified or accredited or whatever the whatever wording they thought they needed to use to get through a certain time period, which obviously is not acceptable.

00:13:13 KIM: Normally, most people take care of it right away, like and everything that I've been dealing with, there's a few instances I can think of where they were on that false claims page for a while.  As I'm the one that updates that page, so I was like man, we still have something there. But what's the farthest that... Because you've been here way long with AASHTO way longer than I have. That sounded like a dig, and I didn't mean it that way, but you’ve been with AASHTO...

00:13:35 BRIAN: Yes, I am old. Yeah, yeah, I mean that. That's pretty much it. As people take care of it ultimately. Like if you look at the false claims accreditation page that there are no false claims of accreditation right now because people take care of them, they don't want, they don't want when somebody searches for their name on the Internet, they do not want that to come up in one of the hits, it is they, they are listed under our false claim. So yeah, usually people take care of it right away or they just kind of like fade away. But yeah, I mean, like, in, in, in the case our website, just the lack of false claims kind of tells you that people. Take care of it.

00:14:09 KIM: In the false claims policy, some of the examples that we have listed of like what is not acceptable. Are for acceptable wording. I think we'll share because those are the most common. We have an example is your organization is recognized by the AASHTO Accreditation Program. That is not an accurate statement. Another example is that your laboratory is AASHTO resource accredited. Also not true. It's AASHTO Accreditation, not AASHTO resource accreditation. I think I mentioned earlier that our technicians are AASHTO certified. Also false, and our asphalt is or product or material is AASHTO certified.

00:14:58 BRIAN: Let me talk about that one for a second. Cause I do get questions all the time from manufacturers about how to get AASHTO certified or some AASHTO. Branding on their products, that is not something AASHTO does. It's not something actually resource does. It's not something anyone else had asked. So, does there are not ash toes certified anything? There's a net pep program that exists at National Transportation Product evaluation program that program does not certify products either they have processes. And we have a multi episode series on what that pet does that you can check out if you're interested in learning more about that program. But they also don't allow you to put slap and AASHTO certification on your products. So like, that's just not something AASHTO does. So it's really important that people don't. Try to say that like that would be a big problem because that that implies that we have somehow approved these products to be used by DOT's or by Federal Highway Administration or by somebody else. And we just, we just. Don't do that.

00:16:08 KIM: If our listeners are thinking well. I thought there was something like that. They were probably thinking about a program that. NTPEP does. And that they should go to and search For more information on that because that you're correct, there is no Certified products, but there is. Is a list of evaluated products or something there?

00:16:25 BRIAN: Evaluated products correct.

00:16:27 KIM: There is a list of products, but they are not certified. So again, some people may be listening to this and like you're getting into the weeds about what this word means because doesn't evaluate it and certified mean the same thing. No, they do not. So again, I'll encourage you to look, listen to the terminology episode that we had when we go into those details a little bit more, but if you're thinking that you thought there was a list of some products there is, but it's not what we're talking about here. So just be aware of that and. Then the last. Example that we have on in the policy is. Tricky and I think I wanted you to get into a little bit more details about this Brian, that our laboratories are AASHTO accredited now that seems like that's what we've been talking about. It's saying that our laboratories are AASHTO Accredited why is that and a list of unacceptable statements?

00:17:16 BRIAN: Many of our customers operate in different places. They might have multiple facilities where they do perform testing. They might have site facilities where they perform testing or project facilities where they perform testing. AASHTO Accreditation is site specific. If you go to the directory, you'll see the. Address of that laboratory and that is the only one that is AASHTO Accredited. So, if you say vaguely, our laboratories are AASHTO Accredited, that may or may not be true. If you are a third-party test third-party that is probably not true. You probably need to be more specific about which locations are accredited.: However, you may have one facility and not do any testing outside of that facility, and if you said our laboratory is AASHTO accredited and you got one lab and that's where it is and everything matches up, that is not a false claim. So if that's your situation and you're worried, don't worry.

00:18:17 BRIAN: But if it's not your situation, you. Need to fix that so. One way you can do it is you can say a lot of laboratories. They have a page that has all of their locations and you might on your front page.  Say you know several of our laboratories are AASHTO accredited.  Go to our locations page to see which ones are and then you can denote which ones are and which ones aren't there. If you want to do it that way or you can link directly to our directory and say you know several of our laboratories are AASHTO accredited, please go to the AASHTO website to see you know what we're accredited for or something like that, that's a good way to do it then. You don't have to worry about it. Because that's going to be.  I mean, that's going to be our website for the foreseeable future. So unless that unless that changes, I'm not saying it's impossible.  But if that ever changes, you know you'll find out and you can update it then. But that way you don't have to mess around with like, oh, they were suspended or they change their scope of accreditation, or we dropped this location or we move this other location. It makes it a little easier, so there are there are easier solutions.

00:19:23 KIM: And I think if you are submitting a bid for a project or doing something like that. We do have on our. Directory of the ability for you to bookmark a page for your laboratories. So there's a direct unique link that you can send or you can put on your website or you could put in your e-mail signature line saying that our lab is accredited and have a link, right to it, so you can. Do that and that I do suggest. People do that. If that's helpful to them, right? So just. So they don't have to search. Here it is. Here's the link. Here's it. And it's correct and again updated every half hour to an hour. So that is important, but yeah, I. Think some people get very confused about how well we have one lab that's accredited. Well, OK, yeah. But you have 20. Labs in your in your company and. Only one of. Them is accredited, so you can't make the claim that. All of your laboratories are accredited or be vague and say, oh, we have an AASHTO accredited laboratory, but then not say which one right because you can't infer or imply. That it it. Extends farther. The scope of accreditation extends farther than it does. else before we move on to the topic adjacent of publicizing your accreditation.

00:20:36 BRIAN: The last thing I want to point out is when I see these pages that include the vague false claims that were probably written by a marketing person, that doesn't really understand the details is they often will throw the kitchen sink at the website and throw every logo of every company they know that is loosely affiliated. Were used by that company and I would recommend that people do not do that, so that that leads to other false claims, right? So you may claim to have some affiliate. And with a county government office or a certification program of technicians, I've seen that plenty of times where they say our technicians are all certified.

00:21:20 BRIAN: That's probably unlikely. The other situation that we see is they'll say we are CCRL certified or they'll throw CCRL’s logo on their website. They'll throw AASHTO. Logo on their website or. The old, you know, maybe even an old AMRL logo on the website. You know with them, that's when I really think that they're out of date. These kind of things can be a problem. We're now we're not going to make them fix every single one like I've seen ones that will have like the, you know, we're certified by the county and it's like, well, your county doesn't do that. To my knowledge but it, but I'm not really going to get into the details with them on that because I don't that's between them and the county at that point. But I I do store it away in my head and think, OK, they're they've got some issues beyond what we're talking about that they should really. Care of so anyway, I would. I would just caution people away from making any of those kind of claims about any organization, not just ash to accreditation. And that does cast you in a negative light from an integrity perspective. So it's important you get it right.

00:22:25 KIM: And I think that segue is kind of nicely into how to publicize your accreditation because there is an AASHTO Accredited logo for laboratories who are AASHTO Accredited to you. And so your. Promotion of your AASHTO Accreditation should only really include that AASHTO Accredited logo, not the AASHTO Resource logo, not the AASHTO logo. Also not the CCRL logo, right? So like. Well, you may get. Assessments or proficiency samples from AASHTO resource. Or CCRL putting their logos on your website or on your promotional material. Is not stating actually anything right like that is not the appropriate use of those logos. But if you are AASHTO accredited, then you use the AASHTO accredited logo. So when laboratories are newly accredited, we do send them the logos that they can use for that, I believe or they can request them. And you can request them at anytime if you're updating your promotional materials, you can request and we will send you the appropriate logos to use.

00:23:30 KIM: And I believe a link to the policy so you know that you're not misusing those. And since so we can help ensure that. So I think. That that is good but. Why do we care so much about how people use our logo and how they publicize their accreditation Brian?

00:23:45 BRIAN: Like you said earlier, the words matter. Terminology matters. Make sure that everybody understands what's going on, but also that as far as the logo is concerned, there are implications that come with that, that. We need to preserve. AASHTO Accreditation. And seal or logo that you mentioned is really important to us and it can only be used by actual accredited laboratories for the purposes that it's intended for. Any other misuse of it could create confusion and I think that this is the second part of our conversation is like using those logos. On things that are not appropriate. So we did get a request recently that I'll specifically talk about. I won't mention who it was, but somebody asked us about it was an innocent question. About use of our logo on apparel, they had their own apparel that they wanted to order and they wanted to use the ash toe or AASHTO accreditation logo to say thank you to their technicians for doing such a great job with the assessment.

00:24:50 BRIAN: Now that sounds innocent enough right? And it sounds like a nice thing to do. Number one concern that we had with that is does that then down the line sound like those technicians are certified or that there is some other implication of qualification or recognition through AASHTO or the AASHTO accreditation Program or after resource on those technicians for doing whatever they did or does that mean that they were certified because they quote passed the assessment, which is not a thing? And I know we hear that a lot is that we passed the assessment, it's not a pass. Well, but we want to make sure that there isn't confusion about that. So it's important that we control the use of those logos, especially the AASHTO accreditation logo. So it's not misused, and even in our policy we say, you know, it can be used in these certain instances, but if you if you deviate.

00:25:49 BRIAN: From those instances that are specified on our website, you or on our policy, you need to reach out to us and ask for permission, which this person did to their credit. So I I think this person did all the. Things and the answer was no and they accepted it and that's good. But we're sharing that information with you on the podcast because others might have those similar questions. So like that's what I love about having this platform is that we can get those questions and we can talk about it and it goes to not just that person but anybody else who has similar.

00:26:22 KIM: I love the thought right of the thought process behind oh, you know they quote UN quote. Survived the assessment and you know, like we want to recognize that. And I think that's a great intent from an employee engagement and appreciation standpoint. However, that's not the appropriate way with the logo from an AASHTO accredited logo shirt. I will say. Our Staff, AASHTO Resource and AASHTO staff may have shirts with variations of our logos on it. But that is the extent we don't really offer anything else with the AASHTO accredited logo. Now we have promotional materials that will hand out at trade shows or when we go to the AASHTO Resource technical Exchange, we'll have branded things on it. But that's the ash to resource logo and not the AASHTO Accredited logo. So, I think we are. It's fairly protective over that logo, but. Again, we don't want to. To imply anything and we don't want others to infer things based on the use of that logo in nontraditional ways.

00:27:32 BRIAN: Let's get in the weeds. What are the three types of logos we have just for clarification of the AASHTO accreditation related logos that one may have seen.

00:27:40 KIM: So you may see the AASHTO accredited logo. Which is a fun little check mark a looking thing with the words AASHTOE and accredited beneath it and that logo is for AASHTO Accredited laboratories to use in promotion of their laboratories. Accreditation, right. So, you can put that on your promotional materials, on your website, on your test reports. If that covers the scope of your. Again, that's gets into the weeds a little bit about what you're actually accredited for and whatnot, but then there's also the AASHTO Accreditation program logo, which has a similar little. Logo ICON But then has the words AASHTO Accreditation program. And that is. What we will use internally to identify the AASHTO Accreditation Program. We will use it in social media and we'll promote the AASHTO accreditation program with that logo and then there is just the. Brandmark right. So there's no text below it. It is just the icon or graphic of that yellow and red checkmark a scenario and again we will use that. AASHTO will use that in promotion of the program but the only icon or logo that outside agencies or organizations should be using is the AASHTO accredited logo.

00:29:05 BRIAN: When appropriate.

00:29:06 KIM: When appropriate.

00:29:08 BRIAN: Yeah, I I like the brand mark for our apparel because I think it looks weird when you have all the little text like especially when it's really tiny and you can't read it anyway. I don't think that's great. So that's typically where it gets used is on clothing. It's not to say that we would never be in a situation where we just we give out items that have our logo on it. But the actual credited one will never be used in an inappropriate way, like that's one that we that is. So it is possible that at some point you like if you went to some and we don't do this. Now at the technical exchange. But we've talked about, oh, maybe we should have shirts at the technical exchange that we give away and they have the extra resource logo on them or something like that. And, you know, that's appropriate. And I also like using the logo.

00:29:59 BRIAN: For the event, and I think coupled with that, it's clear that that's that you're not making any implication other than this person went to this thing that we put on and enjoyed it enough to wear the shirt or or just has a shirt that they like to wear when they're doing yard work or something. Like I do with some of my shirts that I. From different events and and that's that's fine. There's no concern about an implication of of a qualification or certification or accreditation or any of those other things.

00:30:26 KIM: I think to some people from the outside, they may say we getting into the weeds a little bit on this and that we are too protective or care too much or, you know, splitting hairs about you know, the use of certification or accreditation or something like that and I think. The point really. Is that the word you? Know like the words matter we've said. That a lot this episode but. Like there is meaning to what those words mean. There's definitions to what accreditation is and how we define accreditation and. How the world defines. Accreditation and certification and those mean. So we have to use. The words appropriately because. We don't want to have an instance where someone saying that they are AASHTO certified their technicians. And then that. Gives someone an advantage or they do something and then something bad happens, right?

00:31:21 KIM: And then a mistake is mistakes happen like comes back to public safety like that, you know, the infrastructure and the projects that. Our customers work on. Are really big deals and they do play a role. In public safety. And you know, we don't want our name. Going further, saying, oh, but they said they were AASHTO certified, so it should have been OK. It's like that's not that's not what we do. So you know what I mean. So I think there's a larger thing larger scale to that than. Some people may see at the surface.

00:31:51 BRIAN: Yeah, and I. Don't think anything you said would surprise anyone who's been working with us for a while. I mean, we reside in the weeds. We are there if you see the weeds and you look at them. There we are talking about terminology, talking about the logos, talking about all these specific details, because it's important to us and it's like it's good that we exist to, to care about that thing. So you can and like everybody exists to care about their thing, that they're involved in, right. And that's how systems work. Like it's important to have those people that care about uh, when they don't care about them. Then things go awry, and then you have. Non optimal situations happening so. So be glad that we are here to care about those things and to live in the weeds so that you don't necessarily have to. You can see them like we'll tell you about what's going on in the weeds, but you don't have to live there with us. All the time. It's OK.

00:32:47 KIM: I just have a picture of us like. In a swamp with like tall. Oh, you know, cattails or something and just, like, hiding out and.

00:32:56 BRIAN: Yeah, that's where we are.

00:32:57 KIM: Yeah, I just that that is totally, I just have this feeling like in hunting gear, trying to hide or something is what my my mind immediately went to.

00:32:57 BRIAN: We'll find us right there.

00:33:06 KIM: But is there any other things that any other things that we missed that you want to make sure that we get across any other points?

00:33:12 BRIAN: No, I I think we've belabored these points pretty well.

00:33:12 KIM: I tracked down.

00:33:15 BRIAN: And if you made it through this, congratulations, I I salute you.

00:33:20 KIM: Yes, if you have any questions about how you're using the AASHTO accredited logo or any questions if you're doing it right or you're just like I don't want to get in trouble, can you make sure that we are doing this right? Feel free to send your promotional materials and maybe you can send them directly to me at kswanson@aashtoresource.org.  But even your quality analyst might be able will be able to be like, Oh yeah, that that looks right.

00:33:46 KIM: Like we'll do a quick glance. They're like, oh, no, that wording is. If you have your, if you want your marketing department to call me to make sure that they are doing everything right, I speak marketing so I can translate for them if they have any questions about what our policy actually is.

00:34:02 BRIAN: So you have a separate batch of weeds that you reside in.

00:34:06 KIM: I do.

00:34:06 BRIAN: Related to marketing, OK, that's good to know.

00:34:06 KIM: I communications. I have a whole other set of weed to hold their swamp of communication and marketing. And then I have, you know, the technical construction. Feels side of my brain very much a swamp, I will say.

00:34:21 BRIAN: Good to know. So, keep that in mind if you have questions. Reach out to Kim and as always, we have this e-mail address podcast@AASHTOresource.org. If you want to give us feedback about our episodes or give us an idea, or if you want to be a guest, then you have something you want to talk about. Let us know.

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00:34:37 ANNOUNCER: Thanks for listening to AASHTO re: source Q & A. If you'd like to be a guest or just submit a question, send us an email at podcast@aashtoresource.org or call Brian at 240-436-4820. For other news and related content, check out AASHTO re:source's Twitter feed or go to ashtoresource.org.