Kim Swanson: 0:03

Welcome to AASHTO Resource Q&A. We're taking time to discuss construction materials, testing and inspection with people in the know. From exploring testing problems and solutions to laboratory best practices and quality management, we're covering topics important to you.

Brian Johnson: 0:19

Welcome to AASHTO Resource Q&A. I'm Brian Johnson.

Kim Swanson: 0:22

And I'm Kim Swanson and we have Ukhere here today and Greg is the Program Manager for Business Development here at AASHTO Resource, correct? Did I get your title right, Greg?

Greg Uherek: 0:33

That was close enough, Kim. What is it?

Kim Swanson: 0:35

Sorry, what is it? I don't know.

Greg Uherek: 0:37

Just Manager of Business Development and Technical Services. Okay, so you had most of it. The main part was correct.

Kim Swanson: 0:44

I mean, I've worked with you for years and I still I. I'm sorry I didn't know your title, but anyway, ryan, why is Greg here today?

Brian Johnson: 0:51

Well, I think the only the only real title for Greg is just Greg but I don't think that really works with, like HR structures.

Brian Johnson: 0:59

Greg does a bunch of different stuff that is like it's hard to define in a regular title, and one of those things that we're going to talk about is the specifier feature on our website, which Greg also manages, but again, not enough. It's not enough for one title, but it's one of the many things that Greg is involved with, so that just to give people context of what what in the world is that title mean? It means that we couldn't come up with a really cohesive way to describe all of the things that Greg does.

Greg Uherek: 1:32

Anyway.

Brian Johnson: 1:33

Wow, so today was that good.

Greg Uherek: 1:35

Yeah, that's good. That makes me sound quite important. Actually we're very busy. One of the two, yeah, I don't know if either are true, but anyway.

Brian Johnson: 1:46

Well, we'll go with it. We'll go with it now.

Kim Swanson: 1:48

Thank you, Brian.

Brian Johnson: 1:49

Our listeners will hold you in high regard, no doubt. Yes, we're going to talk about the specifier feature on our website today with Greg, and Greg is managing that activity. But we're going to take you from the beginning, because people might not know this terminology very well. So let's start with the basics here. What is a specifier?

Greg Uherek: 2:14

So, brian, a specifier is any agency that is requiring AASHTO accreditation. So some of the common specifiers, as an example, would be a DOT that requires accreditation, or federal highway, or any of a multitude of city or state agencies that require this to be done. Laboratories to be accredited when they're working on their projects.

Kim Swanson: 2:44

Is this limited to just requiring AASHTO accreditation, or are specifiers requiring any of the AASHTO resource services, like the proficiency sample or program or the laboratory assessment program, or is it specific just to accreditation?

Greg Uherek: 3:02

It is possible. Some labs and some agencies, some specifiers, require enrollment in the proficiency sample program so those laboratories can still be monitored. But typically, you know, by and large specifiers require accreditationitation and typically for specific methods or scopes and those are the scopes that they're working on normally on their projects.

Brian Johnson: 3:32

Okay, so you mentioned some agencies and the kind of conventional terminology that people use, some kind of government agencies. But the term agency can be expanded and often is when we're looking at different standards. So what kind of other entities register for the specifier tool?

Greg Uherek: 3:55

There are several different types. Another example was DSA, which is Division of the State Architect in California, and that particular agency oversees construction of schools and other public buildings in California. They have a lot of projects. They're pretty busy outfits so they at any given time have somewhere around 600 or 700 projects that are active. Given time have somewhere around 600 or 700 projects that are active and on those projects they're doing a lot of testing on soil, concrete, they're doing field testing and as such they require AASHTO accreditation for all the labs that are working on those projects. So that's an example of you know, they're quasi-government but they're not a state government. They're quasi-government but they're not a state government. They're associated with the state. But even just sticking within California, there's a lot of city and county level agencies that require accreditation. Most of the time they are affiliated with a state government or federal government, but not always.

Brian Johnson: 5:06

Yeah, and they don't need to be either. Right, I mean, for somebody to sign up to be a registered specifier with us, do they have to prove anything?

Greg Uherek: 5:15

No, no, they don't. I should just take a half a step back here. It's a free service, so there's no cost associated with becoming a specifier. Anyone can be a specifier. They can visit our website or reach out directly to me, provide us with some very basic information, contact information, and we would open up a specifier account for them. Once they have that account, they can begin monitoring, on a couple of different levels, laboratories that they're interested in monitoring, and I think we're going to talk about this a little bit later. But there are two significant types of monitoring for a lab. One is referred to as public and one is private. Public is just monitoring the public details of accreditation that anyone can find on our website, and then private would be a level of access where the specifier can see things like assessment reports and proficiency sample ratings that the lab has received, and there's a little more involved to get to that level of access. But I think we'll talk more about that. I don't want to get too far ahead.

Brian Johnson: 6:27

Well, that's okay. I mean, we went right from who to what it is, so let's get more into that. So this is a you mentioned that it's a way for these specifiers to monitor accredited laboratories. So how do they do that? Accredited laboratories so how do they do that?

Greg Uherek: 6:46

Okay. So once a specifier account is set up, you would visit the website, log in with your credentials and go to your homepage the specifier homepage and then there's a search list where that person can then search all of the labs that are in our accreditation program and once they find the lab they'd like to monitor, they simply select it from the list, click a button and they just add them to their list and they begin monitoring that lab immediately. Now that would be the public monitoring. So one of the other tools that is part of the specifier account is the ability to receive real-time alerts. So whenever there's a change in the accreditation status for the lab let's say they get suspended or revoked or they add some new tests or a new scope, that information is submitted and sent to the person monitoring that in an email digest and I think it's a daily digest. You could arrange to have. It shows up in your email and it gives you pertinent information about that particular lab.

Brian Johnson: 8:02

Yeah, Now why would somebody care about that? Why would somebody want that level of detail?

Greg Uherek: 8:09

Sure. So you know a lot of cases the specifying agencies require certain tests of the lab and that they be accredited for those tests. So let's say I have, I'm a project owner, I'm a DOT, for example, and I have a project where they're running CBR testing and as part of my code I require the CBR test, that they be accredited and recognized for that, and that helps to ensure, obviously, the quality and performance of that test and performance of that test. And so let's say that laboratory is suspended or perhaps revoked for testing. I'd want to know, as a specifier, I'd want to know that that lab, for whatever reason you know, maybe they had issues with their equipment or maybe they didn't have personnel that were trained to perform that test. I'd want to know about that as soon as possible trained to perform that test. I'd want to know about that as soon as possible.

Greg Uherek: 9:12

As a lab, you know, the last thing you're probably going to do is contact someone who's requiring you to be accredited and let them know that you have an issue. You might do this if you were, of course, you know not being. If the lab is trustworthy, they want to be upfront about it they might alert the specifier, but more times than not. The specifier is probably the last one to know. So, having this tool, they're alerted to it in real time and then they can decide how to handle that, and it might not be a major issue. It might be that there's some minor paperwork that needs to be corrected or some minor deficiencies, or it could be a major problem. You know that the device they're using to test the CBR is not functioning or is not calibrated, so the specifier then has the ability to pick it up from there and determine whatever corrective action needs to take place. In the meantime, they could, you know, tell that contractor that they cannot work on the site until it's resolved, and those types of issues come up more frequently than you think.

Brian Johnson: 10:22

That point that you just made about what to do after it is determined that there's a suspension, that comes up a lot and a lot of these specifiers. They assume that once somebody is accredited, that's it. And then they start using this feature on our website and find, oh wow, this laboratory on our project actually did get suspended for something they're supposed to be doing. And sometimes they'll call us and say what does AASHTO require of us? What would you tell them in that case, greg?

Greg Uherek: 10:53

But look, we have to be careful what we tell them to do. We can provide them with certain information. Now, if they have that private access, they could look at the assessment, the latest on-site assessment report. They could view proficiency sample ratings if those were the cause for the suspension or revocation and then they can determine. You know how important those issues are. There are some issues. For example, if a bill has not been paid at a certain point in time, we will suspend their accreditation. So if it's only that it's not a technical issue, then it's pretty straightforward. But ultimately the specifying agency needs to determine how to handle that. We're not going to guide them or tell them specifically what we think or consult with them in terms of whether or not they should let this laboratory continue to work on the project.

Brian Johnson: 11:55

Yeah, we don't require anything of the specifiers. You know we're not their boss. We give them the information, they figure it out. But yeah, we do get that question. Sometimes the laboratory is suspended. What does that mean? Can they still work on the project? And we say, well, it's up to you. Do you want them to continue working on the project or do you want to kick them off? Or what do you want corrective action before we get it? I mean, there are a number of things that they could do right so we developed this pro this, this feature for the specifying agencies.

Kim Swanson: 12:25

But I do know that we have a lot of people register or a lot of entities register as specifiers that aren't actually project owners and aren't really specifying anything accreditation. So can you tell us a little bit about what those type of things registered specifiers, who they are and what benefits do they get out of the features?

Greg Uherek: 12:50

Of all of our specifiers and we have about close to 200 specifier accounts with separate agencies and about half of those are not specifying bodies that require accreditation. They are monitoring their own facilities or branch facilities. A lot of our labs have multiple branches in different states and so you have a corporate quality manager or a central person that is making sure those labs are having their assessments. They can view the assessment reports for each lab, they can view the proficiency sample ratings for each of those labs and they also can receive alerts when their reports are issued, if there's a poor rating, for example, or if one of those labs is suspended for some reason.

Greg Uherek: 13:45

So it makes managing a multi-branch laboratory so much easier. As a matter of fact, if you have multiple branches and you're trying to do this differently, I'm not sure how you'd be doing it. If you're relying on the labs to send you electronic copies of reports and keep you informed. It's probably not going to happen, at least not real efficiently. And keep you informed, it's probably not going to happen, at least not real efficiently. So you know it's a real time saver in this case for labs that have multiple branches, especially like a Terracon or a PSI, that they may have 50, 60, 70 branches that are in the accreditation program Very tough to manage without this tool.

Kim Swanson: 14:29

What did people do before this tool? How were people monitoring this many laboratories before we came up with this?

Greg Uherek: 14:39

Well, I think it was probably pretty archaic and the simple answer is I don't think they really were, because it was almost impossible to do right. You know, before this tool was developed and made available on our website, we did have an accreditation directory and a listing that was online and that came around 2003, when our website was initially rolled out, if you will. Before that, laboratories were issued an accreditation certificate that listed all the test methods they were accredited for and you know, a specifier would have to either get a copy of that, I suppose, or you know some proof that they were accredited. Of course, that wasn't kept up to date. When there were changes or if the lab was again suspended, nobody really knew except for the lab. Sometimes the lab didn't even know, or the right people in the lab did not know. But yeah, so it's changed a lot and of course, the internet has changed so many things for everybody just in general, but this has proven to be really beneficial for the specifying bodies both internal and external.

Brian Johnson: 16:03

I agree, greg. I think it's been a real eye-opener for many people because a lot know globally the accreditation programs. I don't think they suspend a lot, so that when somebody starts looking at our program and they see a 10 to 15 percent suspension rate among the accredited labs, I think that that's a surprise to them. To answer Kim's question preemptively, I think it is something that catches them off guard and then all of a sudden they start thinking about what to do with that and how often do they need to monitor? And I think it's seen because of those revelations, that specifier feature has grown in its popularity among agencies and among the private laboratory quality people that are monitoring their labs. So currently, greg and you don't have to have the exact number on this, I know it has grown, but do you have a ballpark number of how many?

Greg Uherek: 17:11

registered specifiers we have at the moment. I think it's about 180, 185 total and, as I said previously, it's about a 50-50 split between external governmental agents not governmental agencies but specifying bodies. So they're requiring the accreditation About half of that and half is just agencies that are doing their own internal monitoring. So it's split 50-50.

Brian Johnson: 17:39

And this has grown, you know, both in the numbers of specifiers, the type of specifiers, and the feature has kind of evolved over time too. So can you tell us some of the things that have been added to the specifier feature over the last few years to make it even more worthwhile for people?

Greg Uherek: 17:59

Yeah, brian, yeah, we've kind of continually been trying to add more types of features that will help the specifiers and the users of this tool better manage those labs. One of them is we now have like a mapping feature. So if you have a lot of labs that are part of your program like, for example, the Corps of Engineers, which has six or 700 labs across the US that are working on projects you can map that out. It just gives you a way to quickly get to a lab. You click on the lab and it's connected to the database and to the accreditation listing for that lab. So that's one of the mapping features that's been helpful.

Greg Uherek: 18:44

We've also built in, I think, the real-time alerts. Were part of the original rollout but we've sort of made them a little more, added some features to that feature, if you will. So there's a couple different ways you can pick your own alerts. Also, there's a tool that lets you download all the labs you're monitoring and into an Excel spreadsheet so you can export it Sort of looks like a database and get key information from each of those labs and maybe import it into something on your end as the lab, if that helps. So, yeah, there's been a lot of good features. It's very easy to use in terms of monitoring. In terms of adding a lab or removing a lab, you know, once a project's done, you probably don't have a need to monitor that lab any further, so you could just remove them from your list. It's pretty straightforward, straightforward.

Kim Swanson: 19:45

So you talked earlier about that. There's private access and public access, and you said the public access is just basically what's publicly available on our website. So if you were going to go to that accreditation directory and manually look through all of those laboratories, you can get that information emailed to you as a registered, without the laboratory knowing that you're monitoring them or checking in on them. Let's talk about the private access a little bit more, greg, and what are some of the benefits of it and what actually needs to happen to get that private access.

Greg Uherek: 20:23

Right. So the private access? You know that's a deeper level of access and what it allows is access to information that is considered private right. So the two main pieces of information or documentation are on-site lab assessment reports and also proficiency sample testing data. So that information is not available publicly right, it's protected by the lab. They don't distribute it freely. However, as a specifying agency, those are important pieces of documents that you are going to want to be aware of and need to see. So, to get private access, we do not provide that level of access. However, by using the tool, you visit the website, you log in Using the tool, you select the lab you'd like private access for and then you click a button, basically, and that sends an email to the primary contact for that lab that we have on file, and then it alerts them that you're seeking private access.

Greg Uherek: 21:33

They in turn then have to approve that in the system and then, once they approve that, you would then have the access. But it requires their approval. If they don't give it to you, then you won't be able to have it obviously. If they don't give it to you, then you won't be able to have it obviously. So it takes us out of the loop, in the sense that AASHTO is not providing this documentation. We're just providing the portal through which you could request it.

Kim Swanson: 22:00

So I can imagine if you are unaware, if a laboratory is unaware of this feature and things like that and they get that request of private access, they might be a little nervous of like who am I giving access to and what? But what are some of the benefits of like why would a laboratory just say, yes, I want to grant this access. Like why would a laboratory say yes to that?

Greg Uherek: 22:21

In some cases they don't have a choice. For example, the Corps of Engineers requires it's in their validation requirements that the laboratories that want to be considered for validation or continue to be validated they must provide that level of access via the AASHTO resource website. Another one is the Division of the State Architect in California, dsa. They also require private access. Most of the specifiers require that they don't always put it in writing that it's private access through the AASHTO website, but they're going to want copies of your assessment reports, going to want to see copies of your proficiency sample testing.

Greg Uherek: 23:09

So this actually makes it easier. This is not an angle that's looked at by the lab, the person that's being monitored, but it makes it easier because you don't have to take the time and send them a copy of the assessment report or send them the ratings, the copy of the ratings you've received from every proficiency sample. And if you have multiple labs that are on multiple projects with multiple specifiers, that's a lot of time spent sending copies of the reports and remembering to do it and to the right person and making sure they get it and the attachment's not too big and you know all those complications that come up in just daily business life. If you're enrolled, the agency requires private access. You approve it. It just kind of operates, you know, behind the scenes. So it's a time saver for both parties.

Kim Swanson: 24:02

So I can imagine someone saying or listening to this, a laboratory listening to this, like oh, I still have to do that for X, y and Z. Then send them this episode and tell them to register as a specifier to save you time later, because while you said we have, you know, almost 200 registered specifiers, we actually have way more businesses and entities requiring accreditation that are not registered to use this feature. So if you're listening to this and thinking, oh man, I have to do that for like five different other things, for projects, I'm on, let them know that this option is available and encourage them to register as a specifier.

Greg Uherek: 24:43

Absolutely, absolutely. And I kind of touched on the benefit of, you know, for a specifying agency to do this, but there's also a benefit for those labs that are trying to monitor send them copies of the reports. I mean, you should want to see the report, right. If you're the overall corporate quality manager, you want to know what's going on in that lab. You want to see copies of the reports. So do you just rely on those 50 labs to send you, whenever they have assessments, to send reports and all the proficiency sample ratings, et cetera the same information we just discussed for a specifying agency? And the answer is no. If you use this tool, however, and you have private access for all those branches, all the information is going to be at your fingertips. You're going to receive alerts whenever there's a problem at any one of those branches, and again, it's just a huge time saver, and the fact that it's free is just amazing.

Brian Johnson: 25:51

It really is amazing that because it allows them to see what's going on in a way that they couldn't otherwise. Right, I mean, we only have one login per laboratory, so that is. That is kind of another thing that led to the corporate people accessing it this way. You know, accessing information through the specifier tool Plus, it tells them what they need to know. You know, like if they had the lab level access, that would give them way too much information if they were monitoring a lot, you know it'd be every time they have a nonconformity. You know which.

Brian Johnson: 26:23

You know some of these reports. This is another thing I don't think people realize. You know which. You know some of these reports this is another thing I don't think people realize is that some of these reports are horrendous. You know they have 60 to 120 nonconformities in them and you would think, okay, you look at your average accreditation body and they might have five nonconformities. You think, okay, I don't need it, you know, that's fine, I can handle looking at that. And then you get a monster report from actual resource or CCRL and then that specifier all of a sudden is much more interested in this feature or tool than they were before, because then they can just get the summary of what's going on.

Brian Johnson: 27:05

So what else, as far as this feature is concerned, doesn't give you everything right. I mean, I just mentioned some of the things. They can't see all the individual nonconformities except in the report. They can't see the corrective actions. They can't see. Well, there was something that we used to have as part of this feature that we no longer have. I want to talk about that for those of you who are kind of curious about why that went away. We used to have automatic alerts every time a proficiency sample report would come out that would run a comparison of the laboratory's accreditation to the test results that were on the most recent report. Greg, why did we stop including that in the private alerts?

Greg Uherek: 27:52

Why did we stop? I think we had an issue with properly identifying the poor ratings, and so there were a few issues where an alert was sent but it really wasn't accurate, didn't reflect that there was a poor rating, so it was kind of an issue on the back end of the system just flagging all those appropriately. So we pulled back on that, at least for the time being, and we're going to work on fixing that. But it's a programming issue, so it might be a little while before we're able to address that appropriately.

Brian Johnson: 28:32

What we really need to do is split up the directory the accreditation directory so that we can isolate those tests and what the conditions are for testing, so that we can get those alerts working properly again. We also have the same test on multiple samples, and that creates some issues too. So there's some good reasons why we stopped doing it. It was throwing some flags that were not accurate, even though I'd say we were mostly you know, probably 80% accurate, and it was really useful for a lot of people. There were some times where it failed and that created some heartburn for those laboratories and some unnecessary concerns for the specifying agency.

Greg Uherek: 29:16

Those ratings are still available. So labs can still access the reports. They just don't receive alerts when there are poorer ratings. So we've got to work that part of it out. But you can visit. If you have private access.

Greg Uherek: 29:31

The specifier can come to the website. They could see the whole history of ratings and actually you could see the. I believe they could see the control chart over a 10-year period, which is interesting because a lot of times you see a bias associated with those control charts. So we've actually had cases where the specifying body, be it a DOT or whoever it is, is having some comparative test result issues with the contractor. So they're both running samples but they're just not quite matching up.

Greg Uherek: 30:07

And in some of those cases, even though you don't receive a poor rating, you're always testing. Your results are always on the high side or the low side and if you're trying to compare that to someone else's data, that may be a cause of the problem. It might be because of the type of equipment you're using for the test or the type of compression machine or whatever the case is. But it can really give you some insight that normally you just wouldn't have any idea about. So having access to those ratings and the ratings history can also be another benefit to getting drilling down to some of the important data that you look at on a project.

Brian Johnson: 30:52

I want to talk about some of the implicit benefits too. Some of these specifying agencies, I feel like they don't really have an understanding of how the program works at times. They know that the laboratory needs to be accredited. Like I said, sometimes they don't know what to do with suspensions, sometimes they don't understand what the accreditation means in general. But if they sign up for the specifier feature, all of a sudden they have interactions with somebody like Greg who can kind of walk them through it. And just knowing just Greg, knowing who you are and that you're interested in this, can open up that conversation and possibly other learning channels. So, greg, if I'm a new specifier and I want to know more, what kind of expectations should I have for amount of service I can get from you, given that, even though I'm not paying anything for it, as we mentioned before, get from you, given that?

Greg Uherek: 31:48

even though I'm not paying anything for it, as we mentioned before. Look, I'm available here. If anyone has questions about the features. We could set up a phone call, a Teams meeting. I've walked a lot of people through the website and showed them how to utilize certain features. I'm more than happy to do it.

Greg Uherek: 32:08

You know, supporting the use of the specifier tool is supporting accreditation and some of the key things that we do as an organization, and it really gives the link to ensure the quality. Yes, we do things to ensure quality by visiting labs, doing the assessments quality. Yes, we do things to ensure quality by visiting labs, doing the assessments, looking at all the things we do with the accreditation program. But having this specifier feature and someone like me or anyone else on staff that can be contacted from one of the labs and have questions answered about what some of this means just adds value to the program and, I think, raises the bar just a little further. You know so because you have specifiers that are smart and they're monitoring things and they're aware of of what's happening out in the field and where the rubber meets the road or concrete meets the something. You know what I mean. Yeah, I, you know what I mean.

Brian Johnson: 33:09

Yeah, I know, I know what you mean, and it is a challenge to identify those specifiers at times, and I feel like with agencies we don't always get the right people either. You know, sometimes the ones who are actually monitoring may be in a contract department and they might not even be the technical people that we often deal with. So I think it's a challenge to identify those folks. But we have had opportunities where we were able to meet with a group of people who were handling those kind of activities and give them you know we held a webinar a couple of times to go over all these features answer any questions that we can, and we're happy to do that for anybody. So Greg and I often will team up for those, and I think it's a great way for people to ask all kinds of questions that they have about accreditation, not just the specifier features, but just what does it mean when you see this?

Brian Johnson: 34:08

Or what is this test method? And we noticed that not too many people have this one. Why is that? Or why don't you accredit for state methods? Or why don't you accredit for these other things that we're interested in? And then we can talk about all of those issues, but can't do it unless we know who they are. So it really gives us a good chance to make those connections. So I think that's been one of the biggest benefits of this endeavor.

Greg Uherek: 34:38

Absolutely, brian. I agree 100%. You know I spend some of my time just reaching out to new specifying agencies even contacting labs that have multiple branches in our program and just letting them know about this. We have a link, obviously on our website for specifiers and it describes the specifier tools and what a specifier is and a lot of the things we've just talked about. But most people never click on that link. We have 2,000 labs in our program, over 2,000 labs, and you know they're usually focused on the lab assessment or performing the proficiency sample material. But we do have the link there and you can also click on that or reach out directly to me or Brian, but especially for the specifier information and to set up an account, please let us know. We'd be happy to again give you a demo and set up an account for you.

Kim Swanson: 35:42

So, Greg, what are some of the other benefits to requiring or using the specifier tools?

Greg Uherek: 35:47

some of the other benefits to requiring or using the specifier tools Because, as you know, our society has become quite litigious, right when we're working on and specifiers are working on multi-million dollar projects it could be a bridge, a large building, it's not always just horizontal construction.

Greg Uherek: 36:06

There's a lot of responsibility from the project owner to ensure the quality and safety of the people and quality of the testing and longevity of the product, of the project.

Greg Uherek: 36:23

Rather so if you are the owner of a project and the labs that are working on it become suspended or revoked, they lose their accreditation. Again, they're not going to reach out to you in most cases and they'll probably try and fix it as quickly as they can Right, but in some cases it's it could be a major problem. And again, if they're doing compression testing, for example, on your project, and they're suspended for that test method but you don't know about it and they continue doing that work and perhaps putting in concrete that it doesn't have the compressive strength that it should, and then there's a failure and a subsequent investigation that could not reflect well on the project owner. It's your responsibility to know these things and it can be difficult to stay in the loop on all of it, especially if you have a lot of projects. But this is one way, using the specifier features, that you will know in real time what's happening, at least as far as suspension and accreditation. So don't know if I mentioned that before, but it can be a huge benefit.

Brian Johnson: 37:38

All right, greg. Well, thanks for your time today. I think we've covered a lot of the benefits and features of the. The specifier uh feature in the website and, uh, like you said, people can reach out to you anytime they want. It's available on our website to register if you have any questions, just we will include greg's contact information on our website, along with other useful information that kim often pulls from the website and puts links to useful information that Kim often pulls from the website and puts links to under the podcast episode information Kim. Any last thoughts or questions from you?

Kim Swanson: 38:17

I just wanted to say something and I forgot. So I don't think so. I think we covered everything here today. Oh, we do. We are planning to do another specifier kind of how-to webinar, possibly later this year or early next year, so be on the lookout for that if you're interested in it. We will put a link on our website at ashtaresourceorg slash events and you can sign up for the mailing list there if you want to be notified of upcoming events, like a potential specifiers webinar. So be on the lookout for that. We don't have a date or anything else specific yet, but that is in the works and should be coming relatively soon.

Brian Johnson: 39:05

All right. Well, I think we covered this topic well enough. Greg, thank you so much for your time and effort putting this together and, kim, as always, great to have you on along with your new assistant. You want to introduce us to your new assistant.

Kim Swanson: 39:21

For those watching on YouTube, you can kind of see the corner of my dog's head, franklin, so he was joining us throughout the podcast today. So if you want to go see a tiny little part of Franklin's head, you can watch this episode on YouTube. Thanks for listening to AASHTO Resource Q&A. If you'd like to be a guest or just submit a question, send us an email at podcast at aashtoresourceorg, or call Brian at 240-436-4820. For other news and related content, check out Ashto Resources social media accounts or go to aashtoresourceorg.